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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Ferrarinut |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 16:51:48
Is anyone aware of alternatives to PayPal that are still convenient for buyers? I am going through an issue with PayPal now that is not to my satisfaction and would like to start reducing the amount of business I give them. A customer in Italy had his parcel stolen, he admitted this to me, regular customer. He then opens a claim in Paypal for a refund of $499. Paypal told me today he will probably get it. So he chooses inexpensive shipping, has me declare low value, does not get insurance, models get stolen and I get left holding the bag and out $499. Does anyone else see something wrong with this picture? Paypal told me I should buy the insurance through the shipper. Is anyone aware of a company that pays the insurance rather than the buyer? Also, I am pretty sure once the parcel cleared customs, which tracking shows, the USPS would not cover lost parcels. They did their part, it was in the hands of Italian Poste at that point. Am I missing something? Why would any buyer using paypal, pay for insurance and higher priced shipping cost when they know paypal will refund them no matter what? There is zero risk, all risk is on the seller, not paypal, not the buyer. I could change all of my auctions to EMS shipping with signature required but we all know what that would do to sales. Paypal doesn't care and they get almost $1MM a year processed by my little business. If PayPal rules in favor of the buyer in this case, I can assure you PayPal will lose far more than I will and my guess is they won't flinch. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| cabarbe |
Posted - 07/12/2012 : 02:31:02
Of course, the buyer's behaviour is really reprenhensible but what about Italian postal service?
I do not know how postal companies work in every country but here in Spain at least a door-to-door delivery means that if you are not at home the parcel is not left "alone". You are given a receipt and the parcel will be given to you at the local postal office. Of course it is possible that a postal employee steals it but it is really hard to happen. |
| LQDA4 |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 06:25:12
Mike,
Also notice some online stores start linking payment option via Amazon checkout. Something you might want to look into as a possible Paypal alternative... |
| dvamodels |
Posted - 05/17/2012 : 05:28:49
quick question "the other way around". I have to pay for some merchandise to be mailed to me (usa) from Italy. Merchandise is cheap (under $ 100) so I think bank wire is going to be too expensive for both me and the seller. What would you suggest? I heard of a thing called "postepay" but I think that can only be used for Italy to Italy transactions, right? Thank you in advance for anybody who could help! :) |
| MikhailZ |
Posted - 05/17/2012 : 04:36:34
Once I paid through the moneybookers.com
An ebay's seller asked to pay this way. All was well. |
| Ferrarinut |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 15:50:43
I did not think you were Andy but just wanted to be safe since both of us were complaining about "Italian" incidents. |
| dvamodels |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 13:36:04
Hello Mike, of course I was not blaming Italians! Sorry if I was not clear, I just meant that an Italian friend told me about what this other person was trying to do, taking advantage of honest people. I dont have to complain about italians, being one myself :) |
| Ferrarinut |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 11:38:09
Thank you Andy, it sounds like your experience was also the same, even worse than my own. I have only had a few incidents so far but I think buyers are becoming more aware of the inequity with the paypal policies and the opportunity to take advantage of sellers.
My issue was with Italian Poste and I see your comment also involves an Italian person. I want to be sure it does not appear that we are suggesting Italy and Italians are somehow untrustworthy. This has nothing to do with Italy specifically. I can tell you there are plenty of stolen parcels here in the US, not only through the postal system but from the front doors of homes where homeowners do not retrieve parcels quickly enough. I am sure this is not unique to the US, Italy or any other country. What we as sellers need to do is be aware of our regular customers and be more cautious with new customers who might try to take advantage. I may opt for other payment options than paypal if I suspect something does not look correct, regardless of the buyers' nationality or country. There are bad apples everywhere! :-) |
| dvamodels |
Posted - 05/16/2012 : 05:55:15
Interesting topic. I had my share of problems with paypal, and I have to say that EVERY TIME the buyer wins, no matter how obvious their fault is. Funny how they stay in business taking money from the seller and they totally protect the buyer, very unethical but obviously very successfull business strategy.
The only times I was able to win with paypal was when I could find communication with the buyer, as only the buyer can decide if he wins or loose. One time a gentleman in UK stated he never received the model and filed a claim with paypal even if the model was sent EMS. Interestingly enough once I sent him a scan of his signature of receipt I got from his city`s post office he apologised and closed the complaint. But, again, that was because he decided to do the right thing, as paypal didn`t gave a crap about it.
We are not using paypal anymore, with all the consequences of the case. We use a credit card merchant account from a real bank which is expensive indeed (up to $ 4.00 in some cases) but at least I feel a little protected and I rather prefer to pay more for a good service then have to send free models to dishonest people.
Mike, another option could be wepay.com ... not the most professional looking website but I tried them a few times and they are not bad. It was founded by a former paypal and they didn`t get any exposure for obvious reasons, but I cannot say anything bad of them. Maybe a little slow at the beginning. If you want to use them you have to call them and explain who you are and what you do, show them your website and so on, otherwise they would tend to hold your money a little too long to make sure you are making legit transactions.
Finally, a little off topic maybe but I thought you should know this Mike, and also the other people of the forum.
I recently had a good friend calling me from Italy saying that he was advised by a fellow model car collector in how to take advantage of some producers/retailers asking for the merchandise mailed with a cheap form a shipment and then they complain they didn`t receive a model and ask for a replacement or their money back. Interestingly enough this gentleman suggested,among of couple others, DVA and Miniwerks like easy people to take advantage of, as he thought Americans are "easy to mess with". Just thought you should know. |
| Ferrarinut |
Posted - 05/10/2012 : 07:34:33
I have had instances with Paypal where I could prove with email exchanges between me and the buyer that the buyer agreed to assume all risk by choosing first class mail, no tracking service no insurance and PayPal will not consider that information. This is where common sense goes out the window with them. I asked if I could write in all of my ebay auctions something to that affect, that buyers who choose first class mail assume 100% risk for loss, theft, damage and buy winning the auction they agree to these terms. Paypal said no. If sellers only give one option to protect themselves by sending every single item over $250 by EMS Express with signature confirmation, sales will plummet. They don't get this part of the equation nor do they care. Sellers have no other option but to look for other payment methods until PayPal realizes they are losing a significant amount of business and comes to their senses. As a seller, I am probably late to come to this conclusion, I have to believe PayPal is aware of the negative impact of their seller policies. |
| LQDA4 |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 19:23:53
For those who do transactions between GBP and EUR, have you heard of this?
http://www.businessinsider.com/transferwise-13-million-2012-4 |
| PeterW |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 14:57:46
I assume you can't send it registered? I get many items from overseas and at least half are registered and I MUST be here and sign for it. If it is left on a doorstep the onus is definitely left on the customer. |
| 250GTE |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 14:32:40
I am one of those buyers that always asks for a declaration of low value. Import duties are insane. And yes, I fully understand and accept that the risk of loss or damage is mine. I had no idea Paypal sees it otherwise, but I am not planning on taking the route that our Italian friend obviously has chosen. When Mike has done his part, he has done his part and that is that.
Isn't it possible to overrule Paypal all together by using some sort of general conditions? Buying from Miniwerks implies a contract between Miniwerks and the buyer (Paypal has no part in that), in which contract as general term can be determined that risk or damage is on the buyer when he chooses to so by requesting low declaration of value. Even if the buyer makes use of Paypal, the contract will obligate him to refund Mike for any amount Paypal is making him pay (rendering the appeal to Paypal pretty much mute). This is probably a bit of a hassle, but I have always wonder what exactly the conditions are in terms of risks, but I don't make a point about it since I accept the risk and have full trust in Mike that he does everything in his power to make sure the package arrives safe and sound. And so far, so good! |
| Ferrarinut |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 14:10:18
Very good idea, that is what I will do. Buyer's cannot have it both ways, if they insist then they do not get the model. Those are not the type of customers a seller wants anyway. Fortunately I do not have any of those types yet. The fellow in Italy who lost the parcel is working with me on a resolution, he and I can work it out using logic, paypal cannot think outside of their rigid policies to do anything logical. |
| ramapao69 |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 13:00:26
I understand what you mean Mike but you can offer two choice, if the buyer want a low value declaration and a cheap shipping he can pay ONLY by bank transfer or credit card, if the buyer want to' pay with Paypal he can only choose EMS shipping with full value declaration for insurance.
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| Ferrarinut |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 12:47:41
I will share a hypothetical transaction and you will see how ludicrous the paypal policy is.
I sell a model for $500. The buyer is international and chooses priority mail with tracking service but no insurance. He is willing to take the risk. The parcel is delivered to his doorstep and tracking result confirms the parcel was delivered to the paypal address. The buyer is not home and the parcel is stolen from his doorstep. He knows it was stolen, there was a witness. This is all shared by email exchange between buyer and seller. The buyer knows it was not his fault nor the fault of the seller but opens a claim in Paypal for non-receipt. Guess who loses? So sellers are also responsible to cut down on crime in their customers' neighborhoods apparently. As a buyer I would never expect the seller to absorb the loss, I would check my homeowners policy or log a police report and hope the thief is caught. This is taking responsibility. The seller did everything in his control and fulfilled his obligation/contract with the buyer. PayPal would not see it that way guaranteed. |
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