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Ferrarinut
USA
1489 Posts |
 Posted - 05/08/2012 : 16:51:48
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| Is anyone aware of alternatives to PayPal that are still convenient for buyers? I am going through an issue with PayPal now that is not to my satisfaction and would like to start reducing the amount of business I give them. A customer in Italy had his parcel stolen, he admitted this to me, regular customer. He then opens a claim in Paypal for a refund of $499. Paypal told me today he will probably get it. So he chooses inexpensive shipping, has me declare low value, does not get insurance, models get stolen and I get left holding the bag and out $499. Does anyone else see something wrong with this picture? Paypal told me I should buy the insurance through the shipper. Is anyone aware of a company that pays the insurance rather than the buyer? Also, I am pretty sure once the parcel cleared customs, which tracking shows, the USPS would not cover lost parcels. They did their part, it was in the hands of Italian Poste at that point. Am I missing something? Why would any buyer using paypal, pay for insurance and higher priced shipping cost when they know paypal will refund them no matter what? There is zero risk, all risk is on the seller, not paypal, not the buyer. I could change all of my auctions to EMS shipping with signature required but we all know what that would do to sales. Paypal doesn't care and they get almost $1MM a year processed by my little business. If PayPal rules in favor of the buyer in this case, I can assure you PayPal will lose far more than I will and my guess is they won't flinch. |
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Ferrarinut
USA
1489 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 17:24:27
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| Of course there is Western Union but this is a major pain as the WU office is far from my office and takes a long time to fill out forms and wait for the clerks to do more paperwork, the gas cost would be more than the paypal fees! Wire transfers are something I already use for bigger transfers, saves a lot of fees but not appropriate for small amounts below $1000. I will start a merchant account with my bank for credit cards rather than PayPal Virtual Terminal but for the typical purchase, I wonder if there is a good alternative. |
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PeterW
USA
1216 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 18:14:49
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In all honesty I would be more upset with the customer but I know this isn't practical. PayPal is not my favorite but I limit my exposure and whenever I pay someone I use the "payment owed" and this eliminate fees on both ends...so at least I get something back.
PayPal needs to get realistic about international shipments. Once it has cleared customs we should be released of any liability and if a customer want's a package declared as a gift or below it's actual value it should be their problem. |
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abelhobby
Mexico
98 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 18:21:14
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How abouth a credit card terminal? I think you have to pay some comission on the money you charge it should be close to paypal cost.
I hate paypal, the only thing they care abouth is there comisions with there stupid rules who only benefit them selfs.
Abel |
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LQDA4
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 18:31:53
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| what about Google Checkout? Has anyone used it? |
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abelhobby
Mexico
98 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 20:48:48
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| Who is that works? never heard of Google checkout!! |
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the.x.man
New Zealand
877 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2012 : 21:53:28
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Abel; checkout.google.com
________________________________________________________
The only substitute for cubic inches is more cubic inches!
~ Max Balchowsky |
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moriaan
Netherlands
510 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 02:18:44
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International banktransfer using iban and bic is probably cheaper, it only takes a few days to process.
Hans |
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Ferrarinut
USA
1489 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 07:39:36
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quote:
Originally posted by PeterW
In all honesty I would be more upset with the customer but I know this isn't practical.
I agree Peter and am more upset with the customer. As you can imagine he will never get another model from me again. I feel bad his parcel was stolen but he needs to take it up with Italian Post and PayPal does need to get realistic with International shipments, right now sellers have far too much exposure. On parcels over $250, you are only covered under their seller protection program if the parcel was sent with signature confirmation and you can only get that with EMS Express, Fedex, UPS, DHL at significantly higher cost. Most buyers never choose these options so PayPal suggests the seller should pay for this. I think it is safe to say their customer service reps have never operated a small business nor lived in the real World. |
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Ferrarinut
USA
1489 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 07:42:37
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quote:
Originally posted by moriaan
International banktransfer using iban and bic is probably cheaper, it only takes a few days to process.
Hans
I do accept bank transfers but this only makes sense for large amounts, otherwise the fees are too high with most banks, the wire sending fee is typically higher than paypal and many international banks charge the sender and take a cut from the amount sent. I need to find alternatives for models such as Make Up, BBR, etc. I will look into Google checkout. |
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Ferrarinut
USA
1489 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 07:45:32
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quote:
Originally posted by abelhobby
How abouth a credit card terminal? I think you have to pay some comission on the money you charge it should be close to paypal cost.
I hate paypal, the only thing they care abouth is there comisions with there stupid rules who only benefit them selfs.
Abel
I already have a credit card terminal but this is through PayPal because their rates are better than my bank Wells Fargo. PayPal Virtual Terminal allows you to accept Visa, MC, AMEX and Diners Club. My rates on normal paypal payments are 2.2% for US payments and 3.2% for International, if a buyer pays by credit card, those rates only go up to 2.4% US and 3.4% International. My bank cannot do better or even match these rates. |
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David
109 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 10:30:28
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| Unfortunately Paypal is a necessary evil. As a seller, I had some issues with them and they always decided in favour of buyers - this means that I lost both models and money. This system allows dishonest buyers to get stuff for free at a very low risk. |
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Models123
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 10:36:02
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Mike, as you know, for many very valid reasons I hate PayPal, and only use them as a necessary evil when I absolutely have to. I don't recommend them, and don't accept them as payment at my business. Taking in credit cards through your bank or other merchant services is better than having anything set up with PayPal.
I have a card terminal too, but through a merchant service company that originated with one of my banks from long ago. However, their fees are not so great now, but I don't ever have to be concerned with any incident like the one you experienced.
With all that said, I also plan to leave that service company and set up an account linked to my bank with www.squareup.com
Squareup was recommended to me and I'm going with it before Monterey.
Marshall |
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ramapao69
Italy
512 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 12:29:29
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I agree with David about the fact that Paypal allows bad behaviours from not honest buyers, but on the other side if you look at this situation as a buyer...will you spend a lot of money with no protection at all in case of loss or damage?
It's a difficult problem to' be' solved...i think the best way for Mike is to' accept Paypal payment ONLY if buyer is disposed to' pay for EMS insured shipping....so also Mike will be more confident about the final result of the transaction.
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Ferrarinut
USA
1489 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 12:38:51
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| The problem for international buyers is that 99 times out of 100 they request low declared value. You cannot insure a parcel for full value and declare something less. If a seller agrees to declare low value, all risk must be on the buyer. There is no benefit to the seller in doing this and the seller loses all protection. Paypal will not consider emails from the buyer and seller proving that the buyer waived his rights to any refund by choosing this shipping method. Again no incentive for the buyer to choose more expensive shipping options or add any insurance. Paypal will rule in their favor no matter what. When EMS Express is used, the cost to ship is much higher $40-50 for one model), protection is better but again you cannot insure for full value without declaring full value, this means a very high price to pay for the model + expensive shipping + heavy tax. What do you think that will do to sales? In order to fully comply with paypal policies as a seller, you will not sell anything. It is a catch 22 with the only solution being to avoid paypal so the seller is not exposed. |
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Ferrarinut
USA
1489 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 12:47:41
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I will share a hypothetical transaction and you will see how ludicrous the paypal policy is.
I sell a model for $500. The buyer is international and chooses priority mail with tracking service but no insurance. He is willing to take the risk. The parcel is delivered to his doorstep and tracking result confirms the parcel was delivered to the paypal address. The buyer is not home and the parcel is stolen from his doorstep. He knows it was stolen, there was a witness. This is all shared by email exchange between buyer and seller. The buyer knows it was not his fault nor the fault of the seller but opens a claim in Paypal for non-receipt. Guess who loses? So sellers are also responsible to cut down on crime in their customers' neighborhoods apparently. As a buyer I would never expect the seller to absorb the loss, I would check my homeowners policy or log a police report and hope the thief is caught. This is taking responsibility. The seller did everything in his control and fulfilled his obligation/contract with the buyer. PayPal would not see it that way guaranteed. |
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PayPal Alternatives?
