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Ferrari2006
Germany
352 Posts |
 Posted - 06/24/2010 : 22:59:46
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....i like the good old Days, no mass or China Production and the Pricese was also very good
"Only avail as a Factoybuild, Price 240 DM thats like 115 Euro...good old days.
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moriaan
Netherlands
510 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2010 : 02:16:30
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I bought my first BBR's for 199 guilders, (around 90 euro's)
at the same time a factorybuilt AMR was 135 euro's
Is that the old dannhausen-catalogue, Fred?
I kept all the old mailordercatalogues, and they make great references nowadays.
Because the flooding of the market the collectors will shift to more exclusive modells. Quality will be more important than quantity.
The age of the average collector is getting older, creating a sense of nostalgia and bringing older BBR's and AMR's more in demand.
The budget of these older collectors is higher which results in higher prices for old models.
Hans |
Edited by - moriaan on 06/25/2010 02:20:24 |
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Trossi
232 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2010 : 05:29:12
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quote:
Originally posted by moriaan
The age of the average collector is getting older, creating a sense of nostalgia and bringing older BBR's and AMR's more in demand.
The budget of these older collectors is higher which results in higher prices for old models.
Hans
This is true, but the problem is that there are extremely few young guys who are interested in the hobby. So in 50 years the prices wil fall, lol. |
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moriaan
Netherlands
510 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2010 : 05:55:15
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thats nice! LOL!
I might make it.. (allthough I would be in my 90's).
Hans |
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ferrari4evr1
USA
297 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2010 : 06:37:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Trossi
quote:
Originally posted by moriaan
The age of the average collector is getting older, creating a sense of nostalgia and bringing older BBR's and AMR's more in demand.
The budget of these older collectors is higher which results in higher prices for old models.
Hans
This is true, but the problem is that there are extremely few young guys who are interested in the hobby. So in 50 years the prices wil fall, lol.
Thats one theory... The other one is that these little gems (older BBR\RGM\GT-Cars\Styling Models etc.) will be worth a little fortune.
The important thing is enjoying the hobby and the passion that goes along with it.... |
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moriaan
Netherlands
510 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2010 : 06:46:42
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Thats one theory... The other one is that these little gems (older BBR\RGM\GT-Cars\Styling Models etc.) will be worth a little fortune.
The important thing is enjoying the hobby and the passion that goes along with it....
[/quote]
absolutely!
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Edited by - moriaan on 06/25/2010 06:47:09 |
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ferrari4evr1
USA
297 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2010 : 08:00:02
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quote:
absolutely!
Hans, i can't wait to see your new edition.. Your RGM.. I'm dyin over here! I want to see it! ;-)
just kidding....
On another note. Speaking of BBR headlights (sort of), what is up with their new 1960 Ferrari 250 California Spyder? No FOG lights?
Are they being lazy or just different from MR Collection\Looksmart?
Most California's came with fog lights but some didn't. Guess this is why they may have chosen this route? Different from all the other California's that have been done already? maybe...... |
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Trossi
232 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2010 : 08:18:28
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| Thats most likely right, as it is the same with old tin toys and trains. But the audience is getting older and older... |
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christian
Austria
443 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2010 : 10:56:47
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Freds list is 20 years or older
so the price is minimum twice or more
means that the model cost is 250 Euros or more
the italian made tecnomodel Aston Martin is 300 Euros |
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george E.
Malawi
57 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2010 : 14:51:35
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Here's what I get.
Roughly, in the year 1990 240 DMs = 119 Euros or $148 in USDs.
Using the inflation Calculator on the web, it works out to be equal to 204.45 Euros in todays money or $253 USDs
The other thing I wanted to say is that I also buy older kits because I like them. BUT also to buy new releases as well and pay the proper prices for them, because if we only buy old stuff or stuff that is sold at a fire sale discount, the manufacturers will go out of business. I know that sometimes we get grumpy and adversarial toward manufacturers and we want to "send them a message". But I fear that the only message we sometimes send them is that it's time to retire. Some people have been in the business continuously over thirty years ( for real- no padding the resume) and have more than paid their dues and deserve respect.
Also, it was nice to read what Ferrarinut had to say about things. I was worried it was only me thinking them. One can cheapen things only so much until no one makes any money- and then there's no reason to do it anymore. Of course, someone is making money, but it's not the factory builders who are doing all the work, and it's not even the retailers alot of the time. Too much merchandise sitting around that every Tom, Dick and Harry is also selling starts to get hard and makes industry workers question the state of affairs. But it must be working for someone or it would'nt be happening.
Finally, the collector age that I have noticed has not gotten older over the years. At least not as I've seen it. In 1981 it was guys in thier mid 30's to late 60's mostly, with some younger and some older, and it pretty much is still the same today.
And of course, there's alot that can't and should not be said on open forums because it's not nice to try to hurt a company and try to put people out of work just to make a subjective point.
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Edited by - george E. on 06/25/2010 15:32:48 |
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audifan
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2010 : 15:32:22
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One of he reasons,I think that there are so many variations of the same models is that the companies need to keep their workers busy.They aren't going to make part,or all of their workers redundant when the run of new models is completed.They would probably lose quite a few of the people they've spent time training to do the job to other jobs-the workers need to have steady employment too.
So they "keep them busy" with variations of the same models that they've been building until the next batch of new releases comes along.
The basic costs to produce the model has been covered with the original batch,so labor is the main cost.
Re-releases of much older models go by the same rule,their base costs have already been paid.
While it seems that they are "flooding the market",the manufacturers must feel that the model variations ,even if they don't sell as many,will pay for their production.
Dealers do not really make a lot of money,as their investment in stock,especially the investment in stock that doesn't sell and sits on the shelves forever,has to be factored into the price of things that DO sell.
That makes it important that a seller,like Mike has noted,has to be very careful in what they order....His family can't eat models-even nice ones.;-) |
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Ferrarinut
USA
1489 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2010 : 19:15:13
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| It is only a matter of time before the need to feed the China factories with high and constant volume backfires on the manufacturers as dealers order lower and lower quantities of each color and/or variation. There will be a period of overlap where dealers think sales will continue as they have, then within months realize they cannot continue to do business the way they used to. As order quantities decrease per color/variation (not overall order volume), the manufacturers will be the ones with dust collecting on stock. Only then will we see a change in their behavior. If they push back on the China factories they will not get the business or the China factories will raise their labor rates which is already happening at a very high rate. I don't think it is long before it makes little economic sense to use China factories. I think we are in a transition period now where manufacturers are feeling the decline in not only unit orders, but overall volume orders from dealers in part due to the economy worldwide as well. I predict big changes in the years ahead, the current business model cannot sustain itself. Manufacturers should enjoy the lofty profits while they can but plan for the future, this won't last much longer. |
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Ferrari2006
Germany
352 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2010 : 23:17:40
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Robert,
Mike, maybe this one.....
I talkt to my Bakery if they can make a Custom roll for me, i need it for a present and from this time they make it ONLY on a F1 weekend. And they sale a lot of them...but whitout the BBR Box :-)
Fred
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audifan
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2010 : 00:40:11
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It was the entry of the Chinese factories as a factor in this business that caused the problems that we are seeing now.
The 3 things that have defined this hobby before this were quality,exclusivity,and,I need to say it,price.
Certain companies became known for the quality of their products,and because they were truly hand-made,fewer were made,and they commanded a higher price.
These factors led to the desire of collectors to try to obtain as many of the models as they could find as something special,not available to everyone that might want one,and only if they could afford it.Once the run was completed,that was the end.
Collectors are still actively searching for some of the older models missing from their shelves,as seen in this forum.
Once the manufacturers realized that the Chinese factory builders were capable of producing(almost)the same end result as their own employees,and at a far lower price,all 3 of the things that made them what they were went out the window in the name of higher profits.
Most collectors will say that the models have possibly lost some of their quality,they are made in such numbers that its not as enjoyable to collect,(the hunt is part of the fun),and as someone has pointed out,the prices have not come down for the collector,as retail prices work out to be nearly the same(factoring in inflation).
I have begun to notice that some items I have seen that are limited to say only 200 pieces are not completely selling out.Many sellers still have them for sale.Even items you would think would be very popular among collectors.
The "Chinese connection"has not benefited the dealer by increasing sales or profits,or the collector,who pays a high "exclusive" price for a mass produced model,only the manufacturer makes out.
These manufacturers have taken their "niche",and brought it almost to the level of a diecast.
The only place I see a benefit brought to us by Chinese production,is in the case of limited edition resin "diecasts" like Spark,and Bizarre,where you can see in many cases,close to,or of the same quality as some of the more lofty brands of the hobby,at a less inflated realistic price.By reflecting the economies of producing these in China,with middle of the road numbers made,usually less than 500 of an particular model,they are sucessful without flooding the market.(I bet you that the final production costs will be very close to the same for both companies models in the end,without adding the gee-whiz of leather bases and higher quality cases,and packaging).
I have seen a number of these Spark,and Bizarre models,who's paint,assembly,and finish could give most of the other companies a run for the money,at less than 1/4 the price.Look at some of the complex paint,and decoration of some of the Spark LeMans 24 models.Most of this is masked,painted and hand decalled,just as a handbuilder would.Yet these models go for the same low price as others in their range,why would a basic street Ferrari with a small amount of photo etch with the same research,same good paint,and same neat assembly handbuilt in the same type of Chinese factory cost 4-6 times as much?
Accuracy is just as easy for the resin diecast company as it is for the big-buck company.Resin casting is not an art form as it was in its beginnings,good paint is good paint,and careful assembly of all the parts,and decals is a basic need for either type of company.
The diecast producer makes no claim for exclusivity,the other type of company built their reputation on it but is now failing in that promise for the sake of greed.
They need to realize where their "bread is buttered",and go back to the roots of their business-making an exclusive limited product of high quality,better and different than the diecast and really deserving of their higher price-its the only way they probably will survive.........
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Ferrari2006: Fred:
That roll is a great product idea!It looks delicious...You can eat it,(no seeds on mine please),but you must eat it before it gets stale,no sitting on the shelf.No saving it,you must buy more.An unlimited series of options to make a custom sandwich. No special packaging,just a paper bag.....;-)
By only making it on certain weekends,it's a limited item!A true collectible!
With food coloring you can make different team cars... |
Edited by - audifan on 06/26/2010 01:31:15 |
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gcs68
Germany
70 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2010 : 01:38:15
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That bread-car is fantastic, made me lough loud, what a great idea Fred.
But wait, next race weekend there will be a special series: the first 30 will be sold with a special paperbag at 10% higher price ;-)
Wolfgang |
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BBR headlights!!
