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moriaan
Netherlands
510 Posts |
 Posted - 05/18/2010 : 03:06:24
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I don't want to be to picky, but lately, I got disapointed a few times with new BBR's...
250GT cabriolet wasn't built perfectly..(which Mike solved, thanks again!) The SP1 I got has a big drop of resin hanging from the roof inside the car. The displaycases have some staining due to bad molding.. Paint seems not to be as perfect as a few years back.
It only shows on regular production-models..
RGM's and Calsito's are good! (received several perfect models without any issues)
Is it me, or is BBR losing it because the production is growing to fast..
I would just like to make them aware..
Hans |
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IchoTolot
France
37 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2010 : 03:56:02
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Add to that completely outdated Borrani wheels with crap spokes and incredibly large/fat bolt nut, fat steering wheel (Fat wheel can be seen on many brands...), crap front lights.
Some other brands are now offering hand laced wirewheels (like the Bosicas), correct skinny steering wheels (MU for example), very nicely made front light with yellow bulbs (see the Chromes Delahaye post).
BBR is loosing it. But it is just my humble point of view. |
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Trossi
232 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2010 : 06:32:03
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For sure the quality problem is connected with the abrupt switch to Chinese production. It will improve with time, but it is sad when you look at the models which were assembled in Italy. Their quality was extremely good. Make up has done a much better job with their outsourced assmbling facility.
The manufacturers who keep producing in their home countries have to face the cheap price from Asian production and have to deliver more value. Bosica is an extreme example, because the models are the top notch products in the whole industrie. The wheels are propably the best available (except Jacques Brauer maybe). Also Ilarios Chromes range has reached a level of detailing which is putting classic artisanmade cars on a new level. |
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Ferrari2006
Germany
352 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2010 : 13:04:31
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Good question. I had some they realy Bad build, but do not forget:
They are Handmade
Any Builder can have a Bad day but if the End Check is missing i have no words. Look at this Picture, back Tire are not good on the wheel, i know its not bad to fix, but how can you send out a Model like this?
Just a quick remember its a 230 Euro Model.....
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audifan
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2010 : 14:13:54
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It really doesn't matter if the builder has a bad day,you worry what the quality control man's day is like,and what is the minimum standard for the model to pass out the door,ie,what level of mistake will be tolerated in the interests of production.
With increased popularity,and the need for higher production,any business needs to hire and train new workers,they will have a "learning curve",but the company should have more checks on the items produced until the new builders come "up to speed".
At what point will the model be returned to the builder for correction-or scrapped?
As the previous poster said,These are expensive items,not cheap toys,and the customer has every right to be "picky". |
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zuoscrib
Switzerland
24 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2010 : 14:54:28
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I have only a few BBR Ferraris, not really new ones, but they are without any mistake, really beautiful.
I collect MR and Looksmart Lambos. Till 2005 both were made in Italy in the MR Factory, but then Looksmart was outsorced to China. Since then the Quality of Looksmart is significantly less. I found a contact trough friends in Italy, who worked for MR. He told me, that the scrap rate in the MR Factory was nearly 50%. From 10 pieces only 5 could go to collectors, all the others could not pass the last check. The MR scrap rate is nearly the same today in Italy. I was told, that since Looksmart builds models in China, the scrap rate reduced to 10%. I thought what a good improvement, but I got the latest models always with some mistake. I collected all the models in all colors, bought every new release, but only a few was perfect, mainly the limited colors for some modelshops.
I am not a perfectionist, but they were not some kind of failures, that you could easily fix it. And they were very visible. For example the window film was already relesed on several models, or it was extremly wavy even on a brand new model. Or in one shipping three Gallardos missed the front lights completly. And they were not loosing during shipping, because they were not in the box! Early 2009 I bought the three fresh released 400 Special Monza in red, blue and silver (LS78A, B and C). I opened the boxes, all three were red ones, although the box stated blue, silver, and red. And one of them was sprayed around with some white powder, but packed properly. Ok, a chinese can not read english and packs red ones in boxes of blue, but the sprayed one was white, everybody sees it. I was very dissapointed and it was my last new purchase, because I gave up to collect new ones. Now I am looking only for old ones, both MR and Looksmart Lambos, which I miss from my collection.
The other problem, that Looksmart nearly killed the value of MR Lambos, therefore I had some really good bargains on MRs recently. But to be honest, it is not so good. Some few years back I could sell an MR Lambo, which I had twice to buy another one, wich I missed. Today it is nearly impossible to sell an MR Lambo with good value. I have nearly 150 Lambos, but only the old ones make me really happy. The new ones had not always have a proper shape and the panel lines are much deeper and more wide, then before.
Looksmart with good quality are the Audis for the Audi Shop, they are nearly perfect. But Looksmart releases the models also under the own name and there are several models with mistakes. I think, they are sellning the models, that not passed the quality check for Audi.
In my opinion only the OC Serie of MR Collection has a good value today. But I read recently, that AutoArt will release an open close diecast series. The first two models are the Lambo Miura, and a Jaguar E-Type. They are significantly better, then Kyosho's all opens, therefore I think it is only a question of time and the OC series of MR will be on the market under the Looksmart brand. Same models as the MRs, toolings are on the shelves, so reduced price and not limited. Very sad. |
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george E.
Malawi
57 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2010 : 16:41:42
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| If a model is 230 euros the factory builder is lucky to get 70-75. In China, lucky to get 25-30. Now, I'd like to see how much model most can build for 70 euros. The work can be mind numbing at times and make you go a little bit loco. It doesn't feel like "art" when it's assembly line factory work. My numbers are generous. Give your factory builder a big hug and a smooch. The very good ones are difficult and sometimes impossible to replace. |
Edited by - george E. on 05/18/2010 17:13:13 |
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F1-Wolfgang
Germany
1884 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2010 : 01:28:20
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The quality of BBR has been down. I can only compare the F1 versions from BBR.
Prior 2004, BBR made the super Gasoline, Quattro Ruotine and BBR-EX models. Those F1 models mentioned were absolutely super made!
In 2005 and 2006, F1 models had a too thick clear lacquer coating.
In 2007 to present, F1 models have that new metallic color red, the paint was much better again.
The new F1 models made in China are also acceptable in color, paint and in Quality.
Just my opinion!
wolfgang
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moriaan
Netherlands
510 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2010 : 03:25:07
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There is a lot going on and a lot has changed in handbuiltproduction over the last decade.
Being a longtime collector, I lost interest on most new models.
I think BBR and other competitors are loosing ground.
They are shifting their philosophy of making quality to quantity.
Recent releases are lesser quality than a few years back, and the number of models issued is way to big!
The "concept" budget-line is made in extreme numbers, and value will drop to nothing in a few years.
The "limited" edition and "color"strategy is a way of fooling the market and boost sales.
Another thing are re-releases.
I am very disapointed that MR sells older MR's as Looksmarts.
Reworked masters from BBR on older models are also ways to make extra money ( I prefer the charm of the original ones).
an example...
I used to buy new releases like the 250 interim and 330gte (singleheadlamp) the moment they were available!
Prices were no issue, just had to have them! they became pretty rare in a few years.
Now, I wait, because I expect to see another 50 different colors and limited editions.. Paying 230 euro for a modell, which you can buy at 150 in a few months is worth the wait..
Mike is doing the right thing!
He is getting more Artisans to create special "really" rare items.
I believe the true artists will allways have an audience.
Exclusivity and genuine limited availability will be the key to the collectorsworld in the years to come.
The hobby will be changing a lot more over the next 10 years..
we'll see what happens.
Hans |
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f40lm
France
4 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2010 : 05:19:02
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I would be extremly disapointed if Mr Open CLose Line looses its value, I have bought several, especially through Mike, and I love them but it would be a shame if Looksmart make them again at cheaper prices.
I think I would really think about selling my collection then. |
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moriaan
Netherlands
510 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2010 : 05:44:40
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Time will tell...
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Ferrari2006
Germany
352 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2010 : 10:44:12
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I must totaly agree Hans, Gerd and all others. Just check eBay, there are a lot "New BBR" Models like the 599 Lapo or the 250 Cabrio Serie1 for reseller buying Prices avail. How can they earn money?
To much Models for the Same Models will be a big drop in prices....
Just check the new BBR 227A Ferrari 330 GT 2+2, very nice Model (i have it in red) this Models you can get in 8! diffrent versions on standard and Leatherbase, easy to get it in 4 mounths cheap on ebay.
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MING43
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2010 : 11:01:27
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| same as italia 458..different colors, same color with different base, ..with different wheels..any combonation you could imagine : ( |
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zuoscrib
Switzerland
24 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2010 : 12:03:02
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Yes, exactly. The MR177 Reventon Roadster was released 299 pcs, but if you search the web, you will find B, C .... or even Y fantasy colors each 25 pcs. And there are company releases as well, some are 25 pcs, some 50 pcs. I know some Lamborghini dealers, they order also 1-3 colors. After counting there can be some 750 pcs. additional release in several colours, which means more than 1'000 pcs on the market. Not to mention the shops which are still unknown for me.
The Makeup Lambos are looking really nice. I do not have any, but Mike has some in his shop. Any experience with them? |
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Ferrari2006
Germany
352 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2010 : 12:10:23
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Guys, i just get this BBR California today from a Dealer, missing the "Life Time Guarantee Certificate" are missing and the Windscreen comes off.....
THANKS BBR !!!
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moriaan
Netherlands
510 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2010 : 12:10:30
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Thats not looking good Fred!
It should not have sent to a dealer, the rearwindow, isn't very nice either... It is a handmade product, but this should not be happening at a company called BBR! Sad but true!
I would rather pay $50 more for old fashioned quality!
In other discussions, collectors stated that the value is not very important to them, its a hobby, and hobbies cost money.
Thats a noble point of view, but if you have invested substantial money in a collection, which most of us have here, it is an issue!
You can spend your money only once, and when the time comes, you decide to sell to upgrade, or scale-down the collection, its a good feeling you can regain a good percentage of the investment!
It makes me very selective what to pay, and what to buy!
Hans
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Edited by - moriaan on 05/19/2010 12:17:03 |
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Topic |
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BBR Quality...
