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Radical Racing
USA
16 Posts |
 Posted - 09/20/2010 : 12:52:51
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Hi Lars:
I can see how it can all get confusing. There has been a lot going on behind the scences in the model industry. In my opinion the BBR Cocept43 models from China are BBR's reaction to the Looksmart range made in China for MR. There are other threads that can tell the story of the HUGE bad blood between the brothers Reali. This might be a fight for survival.
When starting a handbuilt collection, my recomendation unless you have unlimited funds, is to clearly define your goal(s). Take it from one who didn't. 4000+ models later I realize that collector's madness finds a way to seep in and send one off in lots of expensive directions.
If your goal is for investment value, then stay away from BBR, Makeup, Looksmart etc.
If your goal is to document a certain segment of the Ferrari story, then buy the best model of the car you can find regardless of the brand name or price within your budget. You're the only one that has to look at it. At present I think you will find most collectors on this forum believe Makeup is winning the quality battle. However their range is limited and plaqued by late releases. I expect that to get better as they have built their own factory rather then relying on subcontractors.
If you want to build a collection based on Ferrari's and a model brand name, then you pretty much have only two choices, AMR or BBR. AMR's are rare and now expensive. BBR is not so expensive and there is a wide range of models to choose from.
It doesn't sound as if you are looking to go super high end. If you are there is no better place to find them than from Miniwerks.
Again define your goal and try to be patient. I have a lot of duplicates that I wish I had not purchased because something better came out.
Todd
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250GTE
Netherlands
295 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2010 : 15:12:17
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| My goal is to have the ultimate Ferrari museum in 1:43. An example of every roadgoing or showcar Ferrari ever made and of all the (winning) competition cars. Anything, except F1. And the wait for the technology to shrink myself 43 times. |
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cpete
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2010 : 16:31:23
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great topic. I am interested to see what the responses are.
I can say that I just collect the cars that I lusted after : )
I'm not a Ferrari historian or much of an F1 fan (growing up in US and only seeing one race a year), so its pretty much all street.
- 250GTO, Lusso, Superfast, 512, 288, Testrossa, F40, coutach, and a few others
My collection is only for my enjoyment, not for investment.
The few I have sold have been due to upgrading to a different a company. I had a few BBRs, but sold my 288GTO as soon as I could afford my first Make Up 288GTO. The difference was just too great. I have mostly stuck with Make Up since then, but do have a few AMR/Le Phoenix for the older cars.
The main problem I have with the AMR and Le Phoenix models is that they are so much 'larger' even though they are still '1/43' models. It bothers me so much that I keep them seperate from the other models. The early AMR 250GTO was closer to the same size as the BBR model, but once I got the later version kit, I sold the older little AMR because of the quality difference. I end up just not appreciating the lesser quality cars as soon as I upgrade, and really feel no need to keep them.
Does anyone else have the same 'problem' with the size differences?
Chad |
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43builder
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2010 : 16:52:08
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Hello,
I am only 19. I have about 70 or so Handbuilts by BBR, MR, MAKE-UP, Look smart, Feeling43 and other builders. As of now, i have no real goal. i just buy what looks good, but i guess when it gets up into the high hundreds of cars, i will need to set on a specific model.
Patick Lewis |
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the.x.man
New Zealand
877 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2010 : 18:35:28
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Right now, this is my current predicament exactly, Todd. My collection has become a real mess as far as goals go... I have now reached the point where I badly need to define my goals more clearly and not get side-tracked. I also need to rethink my existing collection and thin it out quite a bit.
Chad, I have a Le Phoenix Renault Alpine A110, which in real life is tiny, but in 1/43 scale, it is larger than my McLaren F1 roadcars. I must admit, it does 'irritate' me that I need to display it away from my other models to stop it looking wrong. It was built for me by GT1 Factory, so model is superb - but its slight over-scaling actually seems to detract from it when it is in close proximity to other 1/43 scale models.
________________________________________________________
The only substitute for cubic inches is more cubic inches!
~ Max Balchowsky |
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Lars T.
Germany
21 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2010 : 21:02:18
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Hi Todd,
Thanks for your interesting post. Also I am curious to see how other collectors respond.
For myself, my main passion is Ferrari, so I´ll very likely concentrate on these only (although I must admit that I´m tempted by the Make Up Countach range as well!). I´m not interested in F1, so there will be no such models in my collection probably.
I think I´ll concentrate on Make Up for the modern cars and BBR for the classic cars (plus maybe a few Looksmarts thrown in). With the BBRs, I like very much the Deluxe versions with the leather bases and I have considered collecting only these. But after a while, it sounded silly, because many BBRs are not available with a leather base so I would limit myself too much. So I guess I´ll just buy the leather base where available and the normal base otherwise.
I think there will always be a risk when buying a model car that a few years later another manufacturer will bring out a better model of that car. That would certainly be annoying, but what can you do? Then one could never buy any model, because there might be a better model later. However I´ll stay away from the relatively modern BBRs from a few years ago, like the 512 TR, 360 Modena and such, since I don´t think these look very good. Make Up will very likely make much better models of these. But for the classic Ferraris, I feel very happy with the huge choice and good quality of the BBRs.
Personally I wouldn´t really mind ending up with 4,000 handbuilts one day, as long as I´d have the space to display all of them. But it would be a looooong time anyway before I´d have that many :-)
The super high-end models are too expensive for me, so I´ll better stay with the regular handbuilts. But these already give me such great satisfaction that I don´t feel any big desire to upgrade even more from that high level :-)
Ciao,
Lars T.
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patschum
France
69 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2010 : 00:34:15
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Hello ,
very interesting topic.
On my side i collect only for enjoyment. I began in the 90's with Minichamps, Bang ,Art 1/43 models. At this time i was already impressed with the size of those models compared with 1/18.
Then i discovered BBR but i wasn't able to buy one when i was a student.
I only collect recent Ferrari, Maserati and F1 from 1988. I like BBR and EIDOLON, Tecnomodel and some Veloce43.
I'm impressed with the quality, the paint and the details for such a small car.
I don't ask myself if those models will reach a higher price in the future. I don't collect for this goal. May be one day i will buy a model from a superbuilder but it not the moment now.
My enjoyment is to see them together side by side in my cabinet. Every morming i have a look before going to work and i'm happy to see them again after work.
My only problem is with the modern "limited edition" without other reason that making money.
Models are sold out very quickly and you find them at a amazing price on Ebay the day after! So it's like if you have to buy it without having time to think.
Moreover the fact that a model is a limited edition is not important for me.
I collect models i like and that's all !
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Edited by - patschum on 09/21/2010 00:36:29 |
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Pwylie1
United Kingdom
33 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2010 : 02:55:27
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i have had several themes in my collection over the years (Road /Sports /F1 Cars) - BBR /MR /Make Up /LP's Paddocks BBR Classics /QR's Yellow Ferrairs Only ) - but although i loved Ferrari i allways had a sprinkling of other cars -Lambos , Porsches , Jaguars , and Alfa Romeos to maintain interest and variety .
It frustrated me that after so many years BBR continued releasing the same old cars when there were many that hadnt been done , the shift to China was a bad move for older /long term collectors in my opinion , the cars were cheaper but only really what an older Italian hand built cost, the new italian handbuilts went off the price scale . the flooding of several models firstly by BBR Then by Make Up
the Frustration at not seeing some other of the worlds most beautifull cars -Porsches , Astons , Jaguars Etc all eroded my interest , the contant releasing of special models by several different places it just struck me as maybe BBR cashing in , ultimately the dealers may catch a cold and the collectors who paid top dollar also , and so i decided to start selling some cars thinning the collection .. There are also cars that have not been all sold out maybe less popular , then they sometimes pop up on italian E Bay for less than half price - so i ask myself , how and why can this be ? Less popular cars like the
BBR 191B - Was being sold for usual BBR price everywhere two months earlier , then on Italy E Bay i found for £95 - less than half -- Brand New - i found many cars like this.. so i then thought the market was inflated .
The economy also made it a bit more tougher to continue to collect in numbers that i had in the past and the desirability was starting to pass - then suddenly my Mother died and collecting seemed
like nothing , like it didnt matter anymore ! quite strange as its been the big 'hobby' thing to me for many many years ..
Since then i have sold a lot of my cars , collection almost halved
dosnt seem important anymore to me but considering the way the market has gone i think i have made the correct decision
What i have said here may offend some , this is not my intention
it is just to speak as i find and observe this is a very interesting hobby , and gives a great amount of pleasure , but it comes at a high cost and those making the product have a responsibility to not erode the investment of the loyal collectors and i think this has been maybe been done in certain areas ..
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LQDA4
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2010 : 03:52:28
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Pwylie1,
Sorry to hear about your mother. We recently lost a friend who left behind a loving husband and a 4 years old daughter. Life is so fragile and short.
I collect mainly for my enjoyment. If not spending money on this hobby, I would have spent it on others. Having said that, I have shifted my purchases to higher-end handbuilts and stay away from factory built models. I'd rather save up for one Suber than buying 4-5 BBRs or Eidolons...
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F1-Wolfgang
Germany
1884 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2010 : 04:50:30
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Hi Paul,
Sorry to hear your mother has passed away!
I also lost interest in collecting BBR and Eidolon models.
Specially when my favored F40 was made by both companies, in all the Rainbow colors!
My main interest in collecting is still F1 Ferrari models. Fortunately, BBR or Tameo is not producing that many models as they done before.
I have cut down buying every F1 model that is available.
Now I concentrate only on special F1 models preferable on leather base and a low quantities!
The model world is defiantly surfeit!
Gerd |
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moriaan
Netherlands
510 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2010 : 06:03:15
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Over the years every collector sets new goals, and defines the collection.
Its impossible to have everything you want, and lets be fair, the hunt for a grail is 1/2 the fun of having it in the collection.
To me, the number of models is getting less important.
I prefer to keep my collection at 150 pieces.
Rarity and quality is the main objective.
No mass produced models for me, however good they are, I can spend my money only once..
Make Up makes fantastic models, but I don't like the numbers they
make, and the rainbow of colors just puts me off.
A burgundy F50GT? A silver P4? fantasymodels, and thats not my thing!
Return on investment is a big thing to me.
Idon't expect to get it all back, but the idea of having a moneypit once I stop, is another nono.
I buy very selective, RGM's are the only BBR's I buy nowadays.
Older models, AMR, ANNECY, early BBR and SM's are my objective.
Lately I am very into the "superbuilders".
I prefer buying 1 supermodel over 10 looksmart or conceptBBR's I can get any day in dozins, however good they are!
Everybody needs to do what he thinks is right, but everytime I see a bburago 1:18 diecast, I am glad I got into handbuilts from the start.
Yesterday I had a memorable and thrilling day.
A fellow collector agreed on selling me his factorybuilt Bosica 156-85 F1.
Once I saw it, several years back, Its been on my mind regularly.
Now.... what will be next... saw a Barnett a few months ago....
Know a Suber for sale...
This is a fantastic hobby!
Starting with 1-2 BBR's a year since 1985.. I gradually climbed the ladder. From the Brianza I would have died for in 1987, to the Bosica, there is allways something new to discover and find!
Collect whatever you like, and enjoy, you only live once!
Hans
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Edited by - moriaan on 09/21/2010 06:12:31 |
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moriaan
Netherlands
510 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2010 : 06:15:57
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Paul, sorry for your loss, but I completely agree on the last paragraph.
The builders should be aware who made them earn a decent living over the years, instead of flooding the market.
In the end, they will shoot themselves in the foot!
Hans |
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Models123
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2010 : 08:05:15
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Paul, I too am sorry for your loss and understand the change in your outlook.
Marshall |
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Models123
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2010 : 08:07:51
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I completely agree with Hans. And I also say the same about some of the manufacturers such as BBR, MR, MakeUp, and others flooding the market....
Marshall |
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360driver
Netherlands
454 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2010 : 08:16:54
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However I love the brands you mentioned above Marshall, I could not agree more with you:
every "Limited Edition" is just another marketing tool
(A different colour is a reason for LE these days......pitty) |
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43builder
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2010 : 08:45:26
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I have a Matte Black Ferrari f430 that i bought about 2 years ago. it has a stradale stripe on it, and is limited to 50 pieces. i have only seen one other besides mine, and it was going for $650.00. That is the idea of a true limited edition, Not just a different wheel color or seats.
Im sure we all have those "very special" ones in our collection...not just a quick wheel change, a completely new model.
Patick Lewis |
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Topic |
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The goal of your collection
