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Bohman
Germany
9 Posts |
 Posted - 12/11/2011 : 00:31:10
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| I have read your forum oftenly, but just as reader in the past. The previous post "A new Ilario" confused me. There was mentioned, that the Chromes range of Ilario is made in China. I heard that from my German retailer three years ago, but I didn't trusted him. I thought he's talking bad about a manufacturer, he don't carry longer, but now it looks like he said the truth. Now, that handbuilt models are made in China nowadays is OK for me, when also the price reflects this circumstance. I really don't understand, why Chromes models shall cost 300-350 USD. This is a price I paid for Heco Miniatures du Chateau, made in France. Other comparable handbuilt models made in China cost less then the half. What do you think? |
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moriaan
Netherlands
510 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2011 : 00:56:27
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Most handbuilts are made in China nowadays..
I recently heard Looksmart and BBR are made in the same facility, but thats another non disclosed rumor.
I hear a lot of collectors turning away from the "china" handbuilts, and so am I, they lack the feel, charm and exclusivity that was once a big part of collecting handbuilts.
Its no longer artwork, it has become mass-production.
I recently got a Suber, I wouldn't trade it for 10 "china-models", and thats not a money issue..
Hans
just my 2 cents..
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Bohman
Germany
9 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2011 : 01:09:10
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moriaan, what is a Suber?
I'm collecting handbuilt since many years and the most known manufacturers form Europe are closed meanwhile.
Which handbuilt model productions are not made in China? |
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LaSource
356 Posts |
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PeterW
USA
1216 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2011 : 06:57:59
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There are 'production" models and "hand built" models. Many production models are hand built in a factory similar to die cast and therefore much cheaper for a company like BBR to produce and that helps keep a profit which they need to exist.
True "hand built" models are built by small "cottage" industry companies like Suber Factory, Built Up Models and others . These have a small staff of very talented people that build limited amounts and they have more finesse because they are not made in a factory environment and are carefully assembled. They are also not perfect and machine made in appearance."Hand Built" models made in China are simply "glorified die cast". Sorry, but it's true.
And as printed 0n the Piranha boxes: NEIMIC [not everything is made in China]
In all fairness I am a builder of models and remain so which makes me bias in this discussion.
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PeterW
USA
1216 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2011 : 07:05:08
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quote:
Originally posted by PeterW
There are 'production" models and "hand built" models. Many production models are hand built in a factory similar to die cast and therefore much cheaper for a company like BBR to produce and that helps keep a profit which they need to exist. True hand build models are typically twice the price and more for a curbside model. They are also much more limited in numbers but keep in mind if it is simply a color change 10-50 of one version can still be mixed in and considered a production therefore keeping the price down.
True "hand built" models are built by small "cottage" industry companies like Suber Factory, Built Up Models and others . These have a small staff of very talented people that build limited amounts and they have more finesse because they are not made in a factory environment and are carefully assembled. They are also not perfect and machine made in appearance."Hand Built" models made in China are simply "glorified die cast". I really appreciate what people like Fred Suber and Mike Craig are doing...keeping with a long held tradition of a true hand built model.
And as printed on the Piranha boxes: NEIMIC [not everything is made in China]
In all fairness I am a builder of models and remain so which makes me bias in this discussion.
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moriaan
Netherlands
510 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2011 : 08:10:41
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peter,
You are exactly on the spot!
There is a difference between "handbuilt"and "Production-models".
couldn't agree more!
Hans
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914joe
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2011 : 09:14:02
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| They are good parts cars for me:) |
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Bohman
Germany
9 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2011 : 01:00:08
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I visited the Suber website. Very beautiful! The figurines look very similair to my L'Eau Rouge figurines I bought 10 years ago. They were done by Patrick Badot from Belgium.
I fully agree. Times has changed and "production model" is good description for models made in China. The title "original factory built" makes no more sense for those type of models. Today this standard is only applicable for small models makers, which make mainly kits and also ready built models of their own kits. Here in Europe has an "original factory built" model more value as a kit "built by nobody", expect kits built by masterbuilders, like Barnett, Suber, ...
However, my main question found no answere yet. Why does cost China production models of Chromes 300-350 USD? This is a price I paid for Heco Miniatures du Chateau, made in France. Other comparable handbuilt models made in China cost less then the half. |
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Trossi
232 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2011 : 05:31:56
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We don't even know for sure if Chromes models are produced in China or in France yet. It would be interesting to know for sure.
The Chromes series is very detailed. As far as I know some of the models have more than 250 parts. |
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Models123
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2011 : 07:02:00
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ALL Ilario/Chromes models are made in China. They are following the same financial formula that Amalgam models use which is:
Lower hard cost + high selling price = more profit for the maker.
And.... in case not everyone knows; as I mentioned above, all Amalgam models are also made in China, and have been for several years, and at much lower cost than when they used to be produced in the U.K. Sad, but true.
One more thing..... all CMA Models (my company) hand built limited editions and kits are produced in the USA.
Marshall |
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ludowika1965
Germany
8 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2011 : 11:32:33
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To Hans:
<"I recently heard Looksmart and BBR are made in the same facility, but thats another non disclosed rumor.">
This is nonsense. You can be sure that Looksmart( MR ) and BBR will not produced in the same facility.
Also I wanted to say following:
I do not really understand why several collectors says that all BBR models are made in China. For the 1:43 models I can say this is not true, I have often this dicussion during the week on phone.
I can inform you that the BBRC-Series are made in China, the standard BBR-Serie as example BBR 232, BBR 235 etc. and also my BBR models in special colors are made in Saronno, Italy! Also as example my GTO`s which we make for the 50th Anniversary of the GTO are made in Italy, not in China.
I saw many times half/ or not finished models from my lines on the tables of BBR in Saronno and I know all three girls by BBR very well which built my special models.
Rainer
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PeterW
USA
1216 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2011 : 11:48:25
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quote:
Originally posted by ludowika1965
To Hans:
<"I recently heard Looksmart and BBR are made in the same facility, but thats another non disclosed rumor.">
This is nonsense. You can be sure that Looksmart( MR ) and BBR will not produced in the same facility.
Also I wanted to say following:
I do not really understand why several collectors says that all BBR models are made in China. For the 1:43 models I can say this is not true, I have often this dicussion during the week on phone.
I can inform you that the BBRC-Series are made in China, the standard BBR-Serie as example BBR 232, BBR 235 etc. and also my BBR models in special colors are made in Saronno, Italy! Also as example my GTO`s which we make for the 50th Anniversary of the GTO are made in Italy, not in China.
I saw many times half/ or not finished models from my lines on the tables of BBR in Saronno and I know all three girls by BBR very well which built my special models.
Rainer
Very good point...and BBR does disclose this on their boxes if I'm not mistaken. |
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250GTE
Netherlands
295 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2011 : 13:36:42
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| Agreed there is a difference between productionmodels and handbuilt models, but if we limit ourself to productionmodels (ore glorified diecasts) does it then really matter if they are built by Italian hands or by Chinese hands? Some of the finest pieces in my collection are made by Singaporese hands. But ok, those are far from productionmodels. |
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moriaan
Netherlands
510 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2011 : 00:48:27
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Rainer,
as I stated, it was a rumor about BBR/Looksmart.
The only new BBR's I bought over the last 3 years are RGM's.
Conceptseries are productionmodels, RGM's are not!
If I were BBR, I would make clearer what is made where.
RGM's have the exclusivity the real collectors are looking for.
Please keep going, there are a few more I would really like!
Good to read they are made the old way!
Hans
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Chromes by Ilario made in China ?
